09:56 < mspevack> can we do a role call of who
09:56 < mspevack> is here from the Board
09:58 < mspevack> well, i'm the only person on the phone
09:59 < mspevack> on the phone -- Max, Seth, Rex
10:00 < mmcgrath> Off to a slow start :-D
10:01 < mspevack> Jeremy's on the phone too, Greg is here with me
10:01 < mspevack> hi mike
10:01 < mmcgrath> morning
10:03 < mspevack> So -- mspevack, katzj, gdk, skvidal, rdieter
10:03 < mspevack> and notting
10:03 < mdomsch> coming
10:03 < mspevack> rahul, blizzard, and paul can't make it.
10:03 < mspevack> so once matt gets on, we can start
10:04 < mspevack> paul's on the phone too
10:05 < mdomsch> i'm here
10:05 < mspevack> max is going to start with some of the legal stuff
10:05 < mspevack> so maybe not any irc for a few minutes
10:10 < mspevack> talking now about the mechanism of spins that are based on stuff that is a combination of core and extras
10:10 < mspevack> the concern is that the reviews might not all be done in time
10:11 < mspevack> there's two issues:
10:11 < mspevack> 1) we want to review all packages that were in Core to make sure that they all are up to the Extras guildelines
10:11 < mspevack> because the Extras guidelines are the ones that *ultimately* we want all Fedora packages to meet
10:12 < mspevack> However, the timeline of Fedora 7 makes it fairly unrealistic that every package that needs to be reviewed, and corrected, will be.
10:12 < skvidal> thl: is anyone keeping up with the numbers of core pkgs that have or have not been reviewed?
10:12 < thl> skvidal, http://rubenkerkhof.com/review should have the data
10:12  * thl checks
10:12 < skvidal> thank you
10:12 < mspevack> The Board's opinion is that it is ok if some of that doesn't get finished.  We will allow packages to be put into the tree if they haven't been reviewed, and are also critical for the distro
10:12 < mspevack> because otherwise there won't be a release.
10:13 < mspevack> So it's a process.  (1) Getting stuff reviewed and into the external build system and (2) making sure everything in that system is reviewed
10:13 < mspevack> bill -- we want to be able to merge source controls on a given date, regardless of reviews
10:13 < f13> don't know if it was mentioned, Koji code got approved for LGPL, but perhaps there was a mistake, trying to see if it can be fully GPL, but regardless, we can drop code now.
10:13 < thl> mspevack, I'd like to have a final deadline for the review set to Fedora 8
10:13 < mspevack> bill -- however, the source control depends on build system, and build system is still waiting on legal.
10:14 < mspevack> so that's the dependency chain
10:14 < thl> so packages that get in now must be reviewed until F8
10:14 < f13> mspevack: Legal just gave go ahead for Koji.
10:14 < mspevack> f13: this morning?
10:14 < mspevack> !!!
10:14  * mspevack hasn't gotten through his email yet
10:15 < skvidal> f13: give us a tarball, luv?
10:15 < f13> mspevack: yes, got it this morning.
10:15 < mspevack> fantastic
10:15 < f13> hopefully I can get a LGPL -> GPL ruling very soon, and then we can drop the tarball
10:16 < f13> will have tarball today, regardless
10:17 < mspevack> ok, we're moving on to some of the other legal issues.
10:17 < mspevack> so mild silence
10:17 < mspevack> backing up...
10:17 < mspevack> bill -- now that we have the code, how long to get it usable?
10:17 < mspevack> seth -- what do we need from infrastructure?
10:17 < mspevack> bill -- tie it into account system, start creating collection instances, etc
10:17 < mspevack> bill -- then test builds...
10:18 < mspevack> seth -- do we need new machines?
10:18 < mspevack> bill -- database and web
10:18 < mspevack> matt -- we've got a database, and xen instances
10:18 < f13> xen is fine for now
10:18 < f13> we'll need machines for the full rollout
10:18 < mspevack> seth -- where will it be built?  same builders as extras?
10:18 < mspevack> someone -- yes
10:18 < f13> RH RelEng may have budget for purchasing such machines.
10:18 < mspevack> f13: can you talk to flanagan about that?
10:19 < f13> plague and koji builders should be able to exist on the same systems, koji being able to run on RHEL4 with some modifications.
10:19 < f13> mspevack: yes.
10:19 < mspevack> mmcgrath: there will also be a question of how we can get to any new boxes from a network perspective
10:19 < mspevack> ok, back to legal...
10:19 < mmcgrath> <nod>
10:21 < mspevack> stickster_work: you still on mute?
10:22 < mspevack> we're talking about the wiki now
10:22 < mspevack> eventually, we would like to have single sign on
10:22 < mspevack> but... the immediate problem is making it easy for people to sign the CLA
10:22  * stickster_work is still on mute, required for now
10:22 < mspevack> we believe that we can require CLA + EditGroup for a certain set of pages
10:22 < mspevack> stickster_work is a likely person to help us determine those
10:22 < stickster_work> Docs/*, Legal/* at least
10:23 < mspevack> the other pages, we think that we can simply require a wiki account, and add a click-through agreement when you create that account that says "I agree to OPL" or something
10:23 < stickster_work> Greg just gave a magic word, "policy" -- project-wide policy pages should be gathered in specific namespaces wherever possible to allow CLA/ACL lockup
10:23 < stickster_work> Other than that, account only
10:23 < mspevack> stickster_work: *nod*
10:24 < mspevack> seth -- for pages we want to protect, we need to make sure that people know how to do ACLs properly
10:24 < stickster_work> Is everybody agreed, then, that making an account would be the gateway to OPL click-thru minimalism?
10:24 < stickster_work> Yeah, ACL problem happened with release notes beats, which live under Docs/ namespace
10:24 < stickster_work> IOW, people click a button to agree to OPL
10:24 < stickster_work> +1 on banner
10:24 < mspevack> yes.  and we also put it on the top of every edit page
10:24 < mspevack> (says mdomsch)
10:25 < stickster_work> (Sorry for typing to you guys.)
10:25 < dgilmore> f13: all builders are FC5 and FC6
10:25 < mspevack> mmcgrath: a bunch of us are looking at you as someone who can work this topic.
10:25 < mspevack> skvidal: can we make these changes when we also upgrade the wiki?
10:25 < mspevack> greg -- totally cool.  but when do we plan to do the wiki upgrade
10:26 < mmcgrath> I can see what it would take if someone can get the verbage to me.
10:26 < mspevack> mmcgrath: ok, i'll work on that.
10:26 < mspevack> for now, can you just use a stub that we fill in?
10:26 < mmcgrath> I sent a note out late last week that we'd be upgrading and no one said any time was better than any other time so I'll probably send another note out today or tomorow with a specific date.
10:26 < stickster_work> +1 greg (legal must stamp)
10:26 < mspevack> yep
10:26 < mmcgrath> mspevack: not sure, never looked at it.
10:27 < f13> dgilmore: that should be fine.  Moving to RHELtOS5 soon would be good.
10:27 < mmcgrath> f13: we decided on fc for the builders for feature reasons but I can't remember what they were.
10:28 < f13> mmcgrath: RHEL4 ppc wasn't so hot
10:28 < f13> and RHEL4 was getting long in the tooth.  RHEL5 should prove a suitable platform for the forseeable future
10:30 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: newer mock was only available on FC5
10:31 < mmcgrath> k
10:31  * stickster_work is now mute again
10:33 < mspevack> ok, we're pretty much wrapping up the legal conversation
10:34 < mmcgrath> BTW: http://yergler.net/MoinLicense (moin license plugin) allows for a license for the entire wiki *AND* can select different licenses for different pages if we chose.
10:35 < jeremy> mmcgrath: sweet
10:36 < mspevack> mmcgrath: that is cool
10:36  * stickster_work can't resist coming back in for these convos, this is dangerous for my workday productivity :-D
10:36 < mmcgrath> There's also a standard plugin that comes with Moin, we can look at it first though its not as granular.
10:37 < mspevack> ok... moving on
10:37 < mspevack> bill -- back to fedora 7
10:37 < stickster_work> BTW, good job jeremy on spin blog
10:37 < mspevack> bill -- the biggest block was the build system, but the timeframe we can give people is unclear.
10:37 < mspevack> build system and source control merge isn't possible by test2
10:38 < mspevack> jeremy -- can we say that we're feature frozen if we're not using the build system and having CVS merged?
10:38  * mspevack pulls up the schedule
10:39 < stickster_work> brrrrr, freeze coming
10:39  * f13 is with Jeremy on this, I think we need to add a month, a 4th test release, and bump the feature freeze to Test3
10:39 < jeremy> f13: hey, I hadn't said that yet ;)
10:40 < stickster_work> Yikes, what about F7 by summit time?
10:40 < f13> jeremy: oops!  sorry, I'm not on the phone 9:
10:41 < mspevack> jeremy -- if we need the build system to be feature frozen, how long will that take?
10:41 < dgilmore> jeremy, f13: +1
10:41 < mspevack> *we are getting f13 so he can give us his opinion*
10:42 < dgilmore> we need to add some things to koji to make it work for us.
10:42 < stickster_work> The Star Chamber calls jkeating to the stand
10:42 < dgilmore> until we get code in hands not sure whats needed
10:42 < mspevack> jesse -- couple of weeks work to get the build system up and usable.
10:45 < dgilmore> f13: we need to get koji packaged and reviewed also
10:45 < mmcgrath> FYI: I've got the wiki setup so that at the bottom of each page it says "By hitting Save Changes you put your changes under the WikiLicense. If you don't want that, hit Cancel to cancel your changes."
10:46 < mmcgrath> where wiki license takes them to: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiLicense
10:46 < mspevack> mmcgrath: seems like a good start
10:46 < mmcgrath> This is live if you want to take a look.
10:46  * mmcgrath notes we'll want to make the license immutable when we create it.
10:47 < mspevack> yeah, i'm looking at it
10:47 < mspevack> now we're talking about if we can crunch the time from final freeze to release
10:47 < mspevack> so that maybe we can buy back some of the delays, and still hit our Red Hat Summit deadline
10:51  * stickster_work is still here
10:52  * stickster_work notes that the summit came a month earlier and between that and our slight (but warranted) slips for FC6, they're squeezing us badly
10:53 < mspevack> stickster_work: yes, you are right
10:53  * stickster_work belabors the obvious as always
10:53 < mspevack> it was very ambitious of us from the beginning to try to have an end of April date.  It was basically *exactly* 6 months
10:53 < mspevack> and history has shown that almost never happens.
10:54  * thl wonders if really have to switch to koji for F8
10:54  * thl wonders if really have to switch to koji for F7
10:54 < thl> sorry, typo
10:54 < dgilmore> thl: it will be easier to switch
10:54 < thl> can we simply contibue with the stuff we have and put it into one tree somehow
10:55 < dgilmore> thl: koji has better support for handling multilib than plague
10:55 < jeremy> thl: the confusion of "where is package foo" then gets to be ... difficult at best :-/
10:55 < mspevack> now we're talking about pungi + jonathan steffan's graphical code on top of it
10:55 < mspevack> jesse's seen it, mspevack really wants to try it out firsthand ASAP
10:56 < jeremy> thl: also, things like wanting alsa (in "core") to depend on pulseaudio (in "extras") become more difficult
10:56 < thl> jeremy, I know, I know
10:56  * thl really dislikes the idea to delay F7
10:56 < dgilmore> jeremy: not if we move all the old core stuff to build on plague
10:57 < jeremy> dgilmore: but then we need to build a fair bit of stuff on top of plague to not make jesse lose his mind
10:57 < dgilmore> jeremy: :)  i know
10:57 < mspevack> bill -- requires "rewriting all the release engineering stuff twice"
10:58 < mspevack> seth -- a suggestion.  we get a koji tarball today.  let's see how far we can get by next week, and then make a decision on schedule changes next week.
10:58 < mspevack> jesse -- +1
10:58 < dgilmore> thats fine
10:59 < mspevack> bill -- +1
10:59 < mspevack> jeremy -- i think it's delaying the inevitable, but ok :-)
11:00 < mspevack> seth -- well maybe we can slip intermediate dates, but still make the summit.
11:00 < mspevack> matt -- and if not, then we don't.
11:00  * mspevack agrees.  Summit is still a very good goal, but quality product is more important
11:00  * Bob-Laptop notes that Jon's GUI for Pungi is now called revisor
11:01  * Bob-Laptop has been told that an email has been sent to get "hosted" space for it
11:02 < mspevack> we need to find some people who can help with parts of the "larger" Fedora spin.
11:02 < mspevack> in terms of figuring out what the package manifest needs to be
11:03 < Bob-Laptop> Tell me what is needed and a deadline and I will help out as much as I can
11:03 < mspevack> Bob-Laptop: ping notting or jeremy after the meeting and they will give you more info
11:04  * Bob-Laptop nods
11:06 < mspevack> *meeting has devolved into various chatter about the different Fedora spins*
11:06 < mspevack> Gnome/KDE desktop, a "developer" edition, what dekstop environments that should include, etc.
11:06 < mspevack> worries about how to fit things on 1 or 2 DVDs as appropriate
11:07 < Bob-Laptop> Fedora UNity will help out and distribute any spins that the formal project does not want to
11:07 < jeremy> Bob-Laptop: *nod*  and did you see my blog post?  comments appreciated
11:08 < stickster_work> F7 Ultimate Edition
11:08 < Bob-Laptop> jeremy: I did, I need to re-read and get with others in Unity for input also
11:08 < stickster_work> F7 Matthew Szulik Signature Edition
11:08 < stickster_work> Even better: F7 Jesse Keating Signature Edition
11:08 < skvidal> f7 widescreen
11:08 < jeremy> jkeating suggests F7 Director's Cut
11:08 < stickster_work> F7 Anamorphic
11:08 < mdomsch> gonzo (marx?)
11:08 < stickster_work> F7 Extreme
11:08  * thl likes Director's Cut
11:09 < mmcgrath> Red Hat Presents: F7
11:09 < jima> Fedora 7, Unity Edition? ;P
11:09 < Bob-Laptop> jima: heh
11:10  * jima will happily seed torrents...
11:12 < stickster_work> Another irssi convert!
11:13 < stickster_work> F7 Learn the Goddamn CLI Edition
11:13 < mspevack> meeting adjourned
